Controverted Point: That all things are by nature immutable.

Theravādin: Do you mean that they all belong to that Saṅgha of things, by which the wrong-doer is assured of immediate retribution on rebirth, or to that other Saṅgha by which the Path-winner is assured of final salvation? Is there not a third congeries that is not fixed as one or the other? You deny. But think. Surely there is? You assent. Then you contradict your proposition. And you must do so, for did not the Exalted One speak of three congeries?

You affirm as your reason that matter is fixed as matter, and that mind (or each mental aggregate) is fixed as mind. Well, then, under which of those three congeries do you find them fixed?

Andhakas and Uttarapāthakas: But if I may not say that matter, or mind is fixed as matter, or mind respectively, tell me, can body become mind, can become one of the four mental aggregates, or conversely? Of course not. Surely then I am right.