The king said: ‘You (Buddhists) say thus: “The fire of purgatory is very much more fierce than an ordinary fire. A small stone cast into an ordinary fire may smoke for a day without being destroyed; but a rock as big as an upper chamber cast into the furnace of purgatory would be that moment destroyed.” That is a statement I cannot believe. Now, on the other hand you say thus: “Whatsoever beings are there reborn, though they burn for hundreds of thousands of years in purgatory, yet are they not destroyed.” That too is a statement 1 don’t believe.’

The Elder said: ‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the females of sharks and crocodiles and tortoises and peacocks and pigeons eat hard bits of stone and gravel?’

‘Yes, Sir. They do.’

‘What then? Are these hard things, when they have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, destroyed?’

‘Yes, they are destroyed.’

‘And the embryo that may be inside the same animals—is that too destroyed?’

‘Certainly not.’

‘But why not.’

‘I suppose, Sir, it escapes destruction by the influence of Karma.’

‘Just so, great king, it is through the influence of Karma that beings, though they have been for thousands of years in purgatory, are not destroyed. If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted.”

‘Give me a further illustration.’

‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the females of lions and tigers and panthers and dogs eat hard bits of bone and flesh?’

‘Yes, they eat such things.’

‘What then? are such hard things, when they have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, destroyed?’

‘Yes, they are destroyed?’

‘And the embryo that may be inside the same animals—is that too destroyed?’

‘Certainly not.’

‘But why not?’

‘I suppose, Sir, it escapes destruction by the influence of Karma.’

‘Just so, great king, it is by the influence of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, are not destroyed.’

‘Give me a further illustration.’

‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the tender women—wives of the Yonakas, and nobles, and brahmins, and householders—eat hard cakes and meat.

‘Yes, they eat such hard things.’

‘And when those hard things have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, are not they destroyed?’

‘Yes, they are.’

‘But the children in their womb—are they destroyed?’

‘Certainly not.’

‘And why not?’

‘I suppose, Sir, they escape destruction by the influence of Karma?’

‘Just so, great king, it is through the influence of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, yet are they not destroyed, If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted.”’

‘Very good, Nāgasena!’