‘Venerable Nāgasena, this Nirvāṇa that you are always talking of—can you make clear by metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument, the form, or figure, or duration, or measure of it?’

‘Nirvāṇa, O king, has nothing similar to it. By no metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument can its form, or figure, or duration, or measure be made clear.’

‘That I cannot believe, Nāgasena—that of Nirvāṇa, which really after all is a condition that exists, it should be so impossible in any way to make us understand either the form, or figure, or duration, or measure! Give me some explanation of this.’

‘Very well, O king, I will do so. Is there such a thing, O king, as the great ocean?’

‘Yes, the ocean exists.’

‘Well, suppose some one were to ask you, saying: “How much water is there, your majesty, in the sea, and how many are the creatures that dwell therein?” When that question had been put, how would you answer him?’

‘I should reply thus to such a question: “My good fellow! this is an unaskable thing that you ask me. No one ought to ask such a question. It is a point that should be left alone. The physicists have never examined into the ocean in that way. And no one can measure the water there, or count the creatures who dwell therein.” Thus, Sir, should I make reply.’

‘But why, O king, would you make such a reply about the ocean which, after all, is really an existing condition of things. Ought you not rather to count and tell him, saying: “So and so much is the water in the sea, and so and so many are the creatures that dwell therein?”’

‘That would be impossible, Sir. The question is beyond one’s power.’

‘As impossible as it is, O king, to tell the measure of the water in the sea, or the number of the creatures dwelling therein, though after all the sea exists, so impossible is it in any of the ways you suggest to tell the form, or figure, or duration, or measure of Nirvāṇa, though after all it is a condition that does exist. And even, O king, if one of magical powers, master over mind, were to be able to count the water and the creatures in the sea, even he could not tell the form or the figure, the duration or the measure of Nirvāṇa.

‘And hear another explanation of the same thing, O king. Are there, O king, among the gods certain of them called “The Formless Ones ?

‘Yes, Sir. I have heard there are such.’

‘Well, O king, can you make clear by metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument the form, or figure, or duration, or size of these gods, the “Formless Ones?”’

‘No, I cannot.’

‘Then, O king, there are none.’

‘The Formless Ones, Sir, do exist; and yet it is impossible in any of the ways you suggest to explain either their form or figure, either their duration or their size.’

‘As impossible as it is, O king, to tell the form or figure, the duration or the size of the gods called “Formless Ones,” though they after all are beings that exist, so impossible is it in any of the ways you suggest to explain the form or the figure, the duration or the measure of Nirvāṇa, though after all it is a condition that does exist.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, I will grant you that Nirvāṇa is bliss unalloyed, and yet that is impossible to make clear, either by simile or explanation, by reason or by argument, either its form or its figure, either its duration or its size. But is there no quality of Nirvāṇa which is inherent also in other things, and is such that it can be made evident by metaphor ?’

‘Though there is nothing as to its form which can be so explained, there is something, O king, as to its qualities which can.’

‘O happy word, Nāgasena! Speak then, quickly, that I may have an explanation of even one point in the characteristics of Nirvāṇa. Appease the fever of my heart. Allay it by the cool sweet breezes of your words!’

‘There is one quality of the lotus, O king, inherent in Nirvāṇa, and two qualities of water, and three of medicine, and four of the ocean, and five of food, and ten of space, and three of the wish-conferring gem, and three of red sandal wood, and three of the froth of ghee, and five of a mountain peak.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, that one quality of the lotus which you said was inherent in Nirvāṇa—which is that?’

‘As the lotus, O king, is untarnished by the water, so is Nirvāṇa untarnished by any evil dispositions. This is the one quality of the lotus inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those two qualities of water which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As water, O king, is cool and assuages heat, so also is Nirvāṇa cool, and assuages the fever arising from all evil dispositions. This is the first quality of water inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as water allays the thirst of men and beasts when they are exhausted and anxious, craving for drink, and tormented by thirst, so does Nirvāṇa allay the thirst of the craving after lusts, the craving after future life, and the craving after worldly prosperity. This is the second quality of water inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those three qualities of medicine, which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As medicine, O king, is the refuge of beings tormented by poison, so is Nirvāṇa the refuge of beings tormented with the poison of evil dispositions. This is the first quality of medicine inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as medicine puts an end to diseases, so does Nirvāṇa put an end to griefs. This is the second quality of medicine inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as medicine is ambrosia, so also is Nirvāṇa ambrosia. This is the third quality of medicine inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those four qualities of the ocean which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As the ocean, O king, is free from (empty of) corpses, so also is Nirvāṇa free from (empty of) the dead bodies of all evil dispositions. This, O king, is the first quality of the ocean inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as the ocean is mighty and boundless, and fills not with all the rivers that flow in to it; so is Nirvāṇa mighty and boundless, and fills not with all beings (who enter in to it). This is the second quality of the ocean inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as the ocean is the abode of mighty creatures, so is Nirvāṇa the abode of great men—Arahats, in whom the Great Evils and all stains have been destroyed, endowed with power, masters of themselves. This is the third quality of the ocean inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as the ocean is all in blossom, as it were, with the innumerable and various and fine flowers of the ripple of its waves, so is Nirvāṇa all in blossom, as it were, with the innumerable and various and fine flowers of purity, of knowledge, and of emancipation. This is the fourth quality of the ocean inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those five qualities of food which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As food, O king, is the support of the life of all beings, so is Nirvāṇa, when it has been realised, the support of life, for it puts an end to old age and death. This is the first quality of food inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as food increases the strength of all beings, so does Nirvāṇa, when it has been realised, increase the power of Iddhi of all beings. This is the second quality of food inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as food is the source of the beauty of all beings, so is Nirvāṇa, when it has been realised, the source to all beings of the beauty of holiness. This is the third quality of food inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as food puts a stop to suffering in all beings, so does Nirvāṇa, when it has been realised, put a stop in all beings to the suffering arising from every evil disposition. This is the fourth quality of food inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as food overcomes in all beings the weakness of hunger, so does Nirvāṇa, when it has been realised, overcome in all beings the weakness which arises from hunger and every sort of pain. This is the fifth quality of food inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those ten qualities of space which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As space, O king, neither is born nor grows old, neither dies nor passes away nor is reborn (has a future life to spring up into), as it is incompressible, cannot be carried off by thieves, rests on nothing, is the sphere in which birds fly, is unobstructed, and is infinite; so, O king, Nirvāṇa is not born, neither does it grow old, it dies not, it passes not away, it has no rebirth (no future life to spring up into), it is unconquerable, thieves carry it not off, it is not attached to anything, it is the sphere in which Arahats move, nothing can obstruct it, and it is infinite. These are the ten qualities of space inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those three qualities of the wish-conferring gem which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As the wishing-gem, O king, satisfies every desire, so also does Nirvāṇa. This is the first quality of the wishing-gem inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as the wishing-gem causes delight, so also does Nirvāṇa. This is the second quality of the wishing-gem inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as the wishing-gem is full of lustre, so also is Nirvāṇa. This is the third quality of the wishing-gem inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those three qualities of red sandal wood which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As red sandal wood, O king, is hard to get, so is Nirvāṇa hard to attain to. This is the first quality of red sandal wood inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as red sandal wood is unequalled in the beauty of its perfume, so is Nirvāṇa. This is the second quality of red sandal wood inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as red sandal wood is praised by all the good, so is Nirvāṇa praised by all the Noble Ones. This is the third quality of red sandal wood inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those three qualities of the skimmings of ghee which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As ghee is beautiful in colour, O king, so also is Nirvāṇa beautiful in righteousness. This is the first quality of the ghee inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as ghee has a pleasant perfume, so also has Nirvāṇa the pleasant perfume of righteousness. This is the second quality of ghee inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as ghee has a pleasant taste, so also has Nirvāṇa. This is the third quality of ghee inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Venerable Nāgasena, those five qualities of a mountain peak which you said were inherent in Nirvāṇa—which are they?’

‘As a mountain peak is very lofty, so also is Nirvāṇa very exalted. This is the first quality of a mountain peak inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as a mountain peak is immoveable, so also is Nirvāṇa. This is the second quality of a mountain peak inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as a mountain peak is inaccessible, so also is Nirvāṇa inaccessible to all evil dispositions. This is the third quality of a mountain peak inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as a mountain peak is a place where no plants can grow, so also is Nirvāṇa a condition in which no evil dispositions can grow. This is the fourth quality of a mountain peak inherent in Nirvāṇa. And again, O king, as a mountain peak is free alike from desire to please and from resentment, so also is Nirvāṇa. This is the fifth quality of a mountain peak inherent in Nirvāṇa.’

‘Very good, Nāgasena! That is so, and I accept it as you say.’

Here ends the problem as to the form of Nirvāṇa.