‘Venerable Nāgasena, your people say:

“Nirvāṇa is not past, nor future, nor present, nor produced, nor not produced, nor producible.”

‘In that case, Nāgasena, does the man who, having ordered his life aright, realises Nirvāṇa, realise something already produced, or does he himself produce it first, and then realise it?’

‘Neither the one, O king, nor the other. And nevertheless, O king, that principle of Nirvāṇa (nibbāna-dhātu) which he, so ordering his life aright, realises—that exists.’

‘Do not, venerable Nāgasena, clear up this puzzle by making it dark! Make it open and plain as you elucidate it. With a will, strenuous in endeavour, pour out upon it all that has been taught you. It is a point on which this people is bewildered, plunged into perplexity, lost in doubt. Dissipate this guilty uncertainty; it pierces like a dart!’

‘That principle of Nirvāṇa, O king, so peaceful, so blissful, so delicate, exists. And it is that which he who orders his life aright, grasping the idea of all things (of the conditions, Saṃkhāras) according to the teachings of the Conquerors, realises by his wisdom—even as a pupil, by his knowledge, makes himself, according to the instruction of his teacher, master of an art.

‘And if you ask: “How is Nirvāṇa to be known ?” it is by freedom from distress and danger, by confidence, by peace, by calm, by bliss, by happiness, by delicacy, by purity, by freshness.

‘Just, O king, as a man being burnt in a blazing fiery furnace heaped up with many faggots of dry sticks, when he has freed himself from it by a violent effort, and escaped into a cool place, would experience supreme bliss—just so whosoever orders his life aright, he by his careful thinking will realise the supreme bliss of Nirvāṇa, in which the burning heat of the threefold fire (of lust, malice, and delusion) has all gone out. As the furnace, O king, so should you regard this threefold fire, as the man fallen into the fire the man who is ordering his life aright, as the cool place Nirvāṇa.

‘Or again, O king, as a man fallen into a pit full of the dead bodies of snakes and dogs and men, of ordure, and of refuse, when, finding himself in the midst of it entangled in the hair of the corpses, he had by a violent effort escaped into a place where no dead bodies were, would experience supreme bliss—just so whosoever orders his life aright, he by his careful thinking will realise the supreme bliss of Nirvāṇa, from which the corpses of all evil dispositions have been removed. As a corpse, O king, so should you regard the four pleasures of sense, as the man fallen among corpses the man who is ordering his life aright, as the place free from corpses Nirvāṇa.

‘Or again, O king, as a man (fallen among enemies with drawn swords in their hands), quaking with fear and terror, agitated and upset in mind, when with a violent effort he has freed himself from them, and escaped into a strong refuge, a firm place of security, experiences supreme bliss—just so whosoever orders his life aright, he by his careful thinking will realise the supreme bliss of Nirvāṇa, in which fear and terror have been put away. As the terror, O king, so should you regard the anxiety which arises again and again on account of birth, old age, disease, and death, as the terrified man the man who is ordering his life aright, as the place of refuge Nirvāṇa.

‘Or again, O king, as a man fallen on a spot filthy with dirt, and slime, and mud, when with a violent effort he has got rid of the mud, and escaped to a clean and spotless place, would experience supreme bliss-just so whosoever orders his life aright, he by his careful thinking will realise the supreme bliss of Nirvāṇa, from which the stains and mud of evil dispositions have been removed. As the mud, O king, so should you regard income, and honour, and praise, as the man fallen into the mud the man who is ordering his life aright, as the clean and spotless place Nirvāṇa.

‘And if again you should ask: “How does he who orders his life aright realise that Nirvāṇa?” (I should reply), He, O king, who orders his life aright grasps the truth as to the development of all things, and when he is doing so he perceives therein birth, he perceives old age, he perceives disease, he perceives death. But he perceives not therein either happiness or bliss, he perceives not therein, whether in the beginning, or the middle, or the end, anything worthy of being laid hold of (as lasting satisfaction). As a man, O king, if a mass of iron had been heated the livelong day, and were all glowing, scorching, and red hot, would find no spot on it, whether at one end or in the middle or at the other end, fit to be taken hold of—just so, O king, he who orders his life aright grasps the truth of the development of things, and in doing so he perceives therein birth, he perceives old age, he perceives disease, he perceives death. But he perceives not therein either happiness or bliss, he perceives not therein, whether in the beginning, or in the middle, or in the end, anything fit to be taken hold of (as a lasting satisfaction).

‘And discontent arises in his mind when he thus finds nothing fit to be relied on as a lasting satisfaction, and a fever takes possession of his body, and without a refuge or protection, hopeless, he becomes weary of repeated lives. As if a man had fallen into a burning and blazing mighty fiery furnace, and saw no refuge from it, no way of escape, he would, hopeless, be weary of the fire—just so, O king, discontent arises in his mind when he thus finds nothing fit to be relied on as a lasting satisfaction, and a fever takes possession of his body, and without a refuge or protection, hopeless, he becomes weary of repeated births.

‘And in the mind of him who thus perceives

The insecurity of transitory life, (of starting afresh ha innumerable births) the thought arises: “All on fire is this endless becoming, burning, and blazing! Full of pain is it, of despair! If only one could reach a state in which there were no becoming, there would there be calm, that would be sweet-the cessation of all these conditions, the getting rid of all these defects (of lusts, of evil, and of Karma), the end of cravings, the absence of passion, peace, Nirvāṇa!” And therewith does his mind leap forward into that state in which there is no becoming, and then has he found peace, Then does he exult and rejoice at the thought: “A refuge have I gained at last!” Just, O king, as a man who, venturing into a strange land, has lost his way, on becoming aware of a path, free from jungle, that will lead him home, bounds forward along it, contented in mind, exulting and rejoicing at the thought: “I have found the way at last!"—just so in him who thus perceives the insecurity of transitory births there arises the thought: “All on fire is this endless becoming, burning, and blazing! Full of pain is it, and despair! If only one could reach a state in which there were no becoming, there would there be calm, that would be sweet-the cessation of all these conditions, the getting rid of all these defects, the end of cravings, the absence of passion, peace, Nirvāṇa!” And therewith does his mind leap forward into that state in which there is no becoming, and then has he found peace, then does he exult and rejoice at the thought: “A refuge have I found at last!” And he strives with might and main along that path, searches it out, accustoms himself thoroughly to it, to that end does he make firm his self-possession, to that end does he hold fast in effort, to that end does he remain stedfast in love (toward all beings in all the worlds), and still to that does he direct his mind again and again, until gone far beyond the transitory, he gains the Real, the highest fruit (of Arahatship). And when he has gained that, O king, the man who has ordered his life aright has realised, (seen face to face,) Nirvāṇa!’

‘Very good, Nāgasena! That is so, and I accept it as you say.’

Here ends the problem as to the time of Nirvāṇa.