Thus have I heard: at one time the Lord was staying near Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove at the squirrels’ feeding place. Then Prince Abhaya approached Nātaputta the Jain; having approached, having greeted Nātaputta the Jain, he sat down at a respectful distance. Nātaputta the Jain spoke thus to Prince Abhaya as he was sitting down at a respectful distance:

“Come you, Prince, refute the recluse Gotama so that a lovely reputation goes forth about you to the effect that the recluse Gotama of such great psychic power, of such great majesty, was refuted by Prince Abhaya.” “But how can I, revered sir, refute the recluse Gotama who is of such great psychic power, of such great majesty?”

“Come you, Prince, approach the recluse Gotama; having approached, speak thus to the recluse Gotama: ‘Now, revered sir, could a Tathāgata utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them?’ If the recluse Gotama on being questioned by you thus should answer: ‘Prince, a Tathāgata could utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them,’ then you should speak to him thus: ‘But then, where is the difference, revered sir, between you and an average person? For an average person could also utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them.’ But if the recluse Gotama, on being questioned thus by you, should answer: ‘Prince, a Tathāgata could not utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them,’ then you should speak to him thus: ‘Then how is it, revered sir, that when Devadatta was told by you: “Devadatta is doomed to a sorrowful way (after death), Devadatta is doomed to Niraya Hell, Devadatta is fixed for a kalpa, Devadatta is incurable,” Devadatta was angry and displeased with you for these words?’

Prince, the recluse Gotama, on being asked this double-edged question by you will neither be able to spew out nor swallow down (the puzzle). Just like an iron hook stuck in a man's throat that he can neither spew out nor swallow down, even so, Prince, the recluse Gotama, on being asked this double-edged question by you, will neither be able to spew out nor swallow down (the puzzle).” “Very well, revered sir,” and Prince Abhaya having answered Nātaputta the Jain in assent, rising from his seat, having greeted Nātaputta the Jain keeping his right side towards him, approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, he sat down at a respectful distance.

Alter looking at the sun, it occurred to Prince Abhaya as he was sitting down at a respectful distance: “It is not the right time today to refute the Lord, but tomorrow I, in my own house, will refute the Lord,” and he spoke thus to the Lord: “Revered sir, may the Lord consent to take a meal with me on the morrow with three others?” The Lord consented by becoming silent. Then Prince Abhaya, having understood the lord's consent, rising from his seat, having greeted the Lord, departed keeping his right side towards him.

Then the Lord, at the end of that night, having dressed in the early morning, taking his bowl and robe, approached Prince Abhaya's dwelling; having approached, he sat down on the appointed seat. Then Prince Abhaya with his own hand served and satisfied the Lord with sumptuous solid and soft foods.

Then when the Lord had eaten and had withdrawn his hand from the bowl, Prince Abhaya, taking a low seat, sat down at a respectful distance. Prince Abhaya, sitting down at a respectful distance, spoke thus to the Lord: “Now, revered sir, could a Tathāgata utter a speech disliked by others, disagreeable to them?” “Is not this one-sided, Prince?” “At this point, revered sir, the Jains have lost.”

“Why do you speak thus, Prince: ‘At this point, revered sir, the Jains have lost’?” “Now, I, revered sir, approached Nātaputta the Jain; having approached, having greeted Nātaputta the Jain, I sat down at a respectful distance. Nātaputta the Jain spoke thus to me, revered sir, as I was sitting down at a respectful distance: “Come you, Prince, refute the recluse Gotama so that a lovely reputation goes forth about you to the effect that the recluse Gotama of such great psychic power, of such great majesty, was refuted by Prince Abhaya.” “But how can I, revered sir, refute the recluse Gotama who is of such great psychic power, of such great majesty?” “Come you, Prince, approach the recluse Gotama; having approached, speak thus to the recluse Gotama: ‘Now, revered sir, could a Tathāgata utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them?’ If the recluse Gotama on being questioned by you thus should answer: ‘Prince, a Tathāgata could utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them,’ then you should speak to him thus: ‘But then, where is the difference, revered sir, between you and an average person? For an average person could also utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them.’ But if the recluse Gotama, on being questioned thus by you, should answer: ‘Prince, a Tathāgata could not utter a speech that is disliked by others, disagreeable to them,’ then you should speak to him thus: ‘Then how is it, revered sir, that when Devadatta was told by you: “Devadatta is doomed to a sorrowful way (after death), Devadatta is doomed to Niraya Hell, Devadatta is fixed for a kalpa, Devadatta is incurable,” Devadatta was angry and displeased with you for these words?’ Prince, the recluse Gotama, on being asked this double-edged question by you will neither be able to spew out nor swallow down (the puzzle). Just like an iron hook stuck in a man's throat that he can neither spew out nor swallow down, even so, Prince, the recluse Gotama, on being asked this double-edged question by you, will neither be able to spew out nor swallow down (the puzzle).”

At that time an innocent little baby boy was lying on its back on Prince Abhaya's knees. Then the Lord spoke thus to Prince Abhaya: do you think about this, Prince? If this boy owing to your carelessness or that of his nurse were to put a stick or stone into his mouth, what would you do for him?” “I would get it out, revered sir. And if I, revered sir, were not able to get it out at once, then taking hold of his head with my left hand, crooking a finger, I would get it out with my right hand, even though it were with blood. What is the reason for this? Revered sir, I have compassion for the boy.”

“Even so, Prince, [1, no] whatever speech the Tathāgata knows to be not fact, not true, not connected with the goal, and that is not liked by others, disagreeable to them, that speech the Tathāgata does not utter. [2, no] And whatever speech a Tathāgata knows to be fact, true, but not connected with the goal, and not liked by others, disagreeable to them, neither does the Tathagata utter that speech. [3, yes] And whatever speech the Tathāgata knows to be fact, true, connected with the goal, but not liked by others, disagreeable to them, the Tathagata is aware of the right time for explaining that speech. [4, no] Whatever speech the Tathagata knows to be not fact, not true, not connected with the goal, but that is liked by others, agreeable to them, that speech the Tathagata does not utter. [5, no] And whatever speech the Tathagata knows to be fact, true, but not connected with the goal, yet liked by others, agreeable to them, neither does the Tathagata utter that speech.[6, yes] And whatever speech the Tathagata knows to be fact, true, connected with the goal, and liked by others, agreeable to them, the Tathagata is aware of the right time for explaining that speech.

What is the reason for this? It is, Prince, that the Tathagata has compassion for creatures.”

“Revered sir, if those who are learned nobles and learned brahmans and learned householders and learned recluses approach the Tathagata and ask him a question they have constructed, has the Lord already reflected in his mind on this, thinking: ‘Whoever, having approached me, questions me like this, then, asked thus, I will answer them thus, or does (the answer) occur to a Tathagata immediately?” “Well then, Prince, I will ask you a question in return. As it may please you, so may you answer it.

What do you think about this, Prince? Are you skilled in the various parts of a chariot?” “Yes, revered sir, I am skilled in the various parts of a chariot.”

“What do you think about this, Prince? If those who have approached you should ask thus: ‘What is the name of this particular part of the chariot?’ would you have already reflected on this in your mind, thinking: ‘If those who have approached me should ask thus, then I will answer them thus,’ or would (the answer) occur to you immediately?” “Because, revered sir, I am a renowned charioteer, skilled in the various parts of a chariot, all the particular parts of a chariot are fully known to me, so (the answer) would occur to me immediately.”

“Even so, Prince, if those who are learned nobles and learned brahmans and learned householders and learned recluses approach the Tathāgata and ask him a question they have constructed, (the answer) occurs to the Tathāgata immediately. What is the reason for this? It is, Prince, that the constitution of Dhamma is fully penetrated by the Tathāgata, and because of his full penetration of the constitution of Dhamma (the answer) occurs to the Tathāgata immediately.”

When this had been said, Prince Abhaya spoke thus to the Lord: It is excellent, revered sir, it is excellent, revered sir. It is as if, one might set upright what had been upset, or might disclose what was covered, or point out the way to one who had gone astray, or might bring an oil-lamp into the darkness so that those with vision might see material shapes, even so is Dhamma made clear in many a figure by the Lord. I am going to the Lord for refuge, and to Dhamma and to the Order of monks. May the Lord accept me as a lay-follower, one gone for refuge from today forth for as long as life lasts.”

Discourse to Prince Abhaya: The Eighth